“One of Our Hopes For the Film Was Simply to Encourage Conversation.” Jonathan Croom for COME WITH ME

Ahead of its release, Film Inquiry was able to sit down with screenwriter Jonathan Croom of Come With Me to discuss the co-writing process, the timeliness of the film and much more!

This interview has been edited for clarity.

Kristy Strouse, Film Inquiry: Thank you for taking the time to speak with me, and congratulations on the film. You must be really excited.

JC: Yeah, it’s super exciting. Like I mentioned before, it’s a round of firsts, which is incredibly exciting. For me, this is the first real feature that got off the ground and built momentum. It made it to the finish line, if that’s a thing. Getting through all the stages and seeing the whole process through has been really exciting.

It’s coming out. You’ve made it!

JC: That’s what’s happening! I think it’s been a surprise because, before being part of this process, you only see things from the outside. As a viewer, you see the release date, but you don’t really see everything that happens behind the scenes.

I did have the opportunity to work in the industry for a long time. I worked at Warner Bros. Studios, so you’d see productions on sound stages and watch things being made. But even then, it’s a little deceptive because the projects you see are already moving through production with release dates in place.

For us, this project was obviously different because it’s coming from the independent film world. But this has been great.

Definitely much different than a big studio film.

JC: Absolutely.

And we need more indie films!

JC: Yeah, that’s actually been a running conversation we’ve been having. It’s good to see more independent films getting attention.

We’ve come through a long stretch where it’s been a lot of corporate franchises and giant projects. The people I had the opportunity to work with on this film are such great students of film history. They’re excited by the films that came out of the ’70s and ’80s, those landmark pieces that we all look at and revere. A lot of those films started as spec scripts. They were risks.When filmmaking became more corporatized, a lot of that disappeared. Hopefully we’re at the beginning of a resurgence of that energy again, because that would be great.

I’m all for that. So this was a co-written story with director Aaron Harvey. Co-writing is definitely a different beast. I’d love to hear how it started and how that collaboration worked.

JC: For us, the process started because I’d always been throwing material at Aaron to see what would stick. I’d send him scripts and ideas and say, “Hey, check this out.”

One thing that connected us as artists is that we’re both really diligent workers. We’re always trying to stay active and keep creating. I met Aaron sometime around 2009 or 2010, and from that point on I’d constantly send him material. I think he respected the fact that I was always producing work, even if most of it never went anywhere.

Yet!

JC: Yet. Exactly.

But honestly, I think that’s a great practice for writers. Just stay busy. Always be working. Eventually, Aaron sent me the opening scene that appears in the finished film: Simon exercising in the garage while listening to the radio host. He sent me that scene and said, “I don’t know where this goes. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I just see this scene.” That’s very much how he works. He sees snippets and fragments.

He was gracious enough to hand that scene to me, and when I read it, I immediately felt like I knew the story. I could feel it. Aaron is great because he lets me run with the first draft. He doesn’t want to influence it too much. He gives me the freedom to follow the idea wherever it wants to go.

I love that. And it sounds like he’s a great source of writing prompts.

JC: Oh, yeah, for sure. We’ve done that a couple of times now. He’ll say, “Here’s an opening scene. Go from here.”

That sounds fun.

JC: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s an easy starting place for him as a creative. If he can come up with a scene that captures the feeling of the whole idea, then he gets excited. He’ll see the direction and say, “Okay, yeah, I know where this is going. Let’s do that one.”

What was interesting about developing this new process is that it was the complete opposite of how I’d worked before. I generally come from a more structured background, where you learn all the acts and beats, and this has to happen here, and that has to happen there.

An outline.

JC: Yeah, all of that.

For the majority of my work up until this point, everything had been very structured. It was always, “Okay, I’ll know the ending. I’ll know all the beats and all the major story points before I even start.” That was a rule I made for myself: Make sure you have the map, and then you can begin. What was interesting is that after my time in L.A., I moved back to Washington and reconnected with an old friend who eventually became my partner.

She’s a very creative person as well, but her work is more in the world of interior design. When we moved in together, I’d watch her work on different pieces, maybe a shelf display or something similar. She would arrange different textures and colors, step back, look at it, and say, “No, that doesn’t feel right.”

I’d watch this and think, “It doesn’t feel right? That’s interesting. What do you mean?”

I asked her, “How do you not already know what you want it to look like before you start?”

And she said, “No, no, no. It’s feeling-based. You have to get it out there first, and then see how it feels.”

She could immediately sense things like, “Maybe that’s too heavy. I need to replace that metal piece with wood. I want it to feel more organic.” I found that really interesting. It made me wonder what would happen if I applied that same concept to writing. Instead of following a predetermined map, I would simply write what felt right, whatever felt like the natural next step in the story. It made me wonder what would happen if I applied that same concept to writing. Instead of following a predetermined map, I would simply write what felt right, whatever felt like the natural next step in the story.

Interesting! 

JC: I write until I reached a stopping point. The next day I’d look at my outline, figure out where I was headed next, and keep moving forward. Part of that came from learning that rereading can be dangerous. If you go back too often, you start editing instead of writing.

You’ll read a page and think, “Oh no, that isn’t working. I need to fix that.” Then suddenly you’re caught in a loop of revising, adjusting, and polishing what you’ve already written instead of creating something new.So I taught myself to keep moving forward. With this feeling-based process, though, you have to reread.

You go back because you need to reconnect with the rhythm and cadence of the story. By the time you’ve read back through everything and return to where you left off, the story has already started telling you where it wants to go next.

That’s what gives you direction. For this film, I could write in big chunks. I’d get a lot done in one sitting, then come back later, reread, reconnect with it, and keep going.

source: Vertical

You mentioned this was the first time you’d written this way. Is it something you want to lean into more?

JC: I am. I really am. That said, I think I was spoiled by this story because it flowed out so naturally. Dalton’s voice was something I could just hear. I could hear him talking. We probably have ten extra pages of Dalton material that never made it into the film, but they’re great. Every once in a while we’ll look at them and say, “Man, these are good.”

Special features.

JC: Exactly. Special features. But it’s trickier now, because as the story gets longer, the rereading gets longer. Now I might spend an hour just reading before I start writing. If I only have three hours set aside to work that day, suddenly a third or half of my writing time is gone before I’ve written a single new page. That’s been an adjustment.

But I still really appreciate the approach. I’m continuing to explore it and understand it better, and I think it’s become a much more important part of my process. So yes, I definitely plan to keep working this way.

This script deals with a lot of themes that feel incredibly timely. There are people we all know, to some degree, who are looking for that voice that tells them they’re right. Do you think it’s relatable in ways that maybe feel uncomfortable?

JC: I do. What’s interesting is that it’s timely, but in some ways it already feels tied to an earlier era. In the film, Simon becomes attached to a radio personality. Today that might be YouTube, podcasts, social media, or something else entirely. The delivery system changes, but the effect is the same. And honestly, it’s been fascinating to see just how long the filmmaking process can be. We finished writing the film in February 2022.

Oh, wow.

JC: Yeah. Then we started getting things moving, COVID happened, everything stopped, and eventually we had to start again. Maybe without those interruptions the film would have arrived sooner. Maybe it would have gathered momentum more quickly. But yes, I absolutely think it’s a story for this moment. Today it’s incredibly easy for people to find themselves inside echo chambers where every idea they have is constantly reinforced by what they’re hearing.

It becomes difficult to break through that barrier and encounter different perspectives. That’s something we see happening all around us. One of our hopes for the film was simply to encourage conversation. Let’s talk about these things. I think conversations are where new ideas begin. When we’re willing to hear thoughts that challenge our own, it naturally creates questions.

And that’s part of Simon’s journey too. He’s immersed in this worldview for so long, but eventually he starts hearing things differently. He begins questioning it for himself.

That’s why I hope the film feels relatable.

There’s a great scene at the barbecue where Ron Perlman’s character comes up in conversation. Simon initially responds as though he agrees with what everyone else is saying, but you can tell he’s reading the room and realizing they’re not looking at it the same.

JC: Yeah, I love that scene. What’s funny is that it came out very naturally during the writing process. As I was fleshing everything out and really living inside Simon’s perspective, I felt this growing urgency. We’ve spent the entire film inside Simon’s world. Everything is filtered through how he sees things. At some point, we needed the audience to see how the rest of the world views those same ideas. When that scene came together, it felt like a breakthrough because suddenly we’re exposed to what the broader community actually thinks about the things Simon believes.

And they’re not on the same page.

JC: Not at all. What I love is that Simon feels that pressure in a very human way. He doesn’t want to be ostracized. He doesn’t want to feel like an outsider. He recognizes that disconnect and tries to adapt to it, but at the same time he still holds those convictions. He’s caught between wanting to belong and wanting to remain faithful to what he believes. In some ways, he’s almost mockingly agreeing with them. Then Aaron does something really beautiful with that final shot. When Simon goes into the house to get a drink, you can see that separation. You can feel the isolation. He’s physically there, but emotionally he’s still standing outside of the group, looking in.Aaron did such a great job with that scene.

He really did. And Theo Rossi is fantastic in the film.

JC: He is. And he’s an incredible human being, too. His performance brought so much nuance and stillness to Simon. As a writer, you can put those qualities on the page, but you never really know if they’ll translate to the screen. When you get someone who truly understands the character, though, it’s amazing to watch. Theo got it immediately.

Was there much collaboration once he got involved? Did he contribute ideas for Simon or make suggestions about the character?

JC: What’s great about filmmaking is that it’s such a collaborative medium. It’s not like painting, where one person can work alone and then receive all the credit. A film changes multiple times throughout its life. People always say a movie gets written three times: once when you write the screenplay, again when you shoot it, and again when you edit it. So change is inevitable. That said, everyone involved felt the script was very strong as it was, so there weren’t a lot of requests for major changes. What Theo really wanted to understand was motivation.

He would ask questions: Why is this happening? What was Simon thinking here? What was the emotional state behind this moment?

Those conversations became the collaboration. We spent a lot of time talking through Simon’s mindset and the ideas driving the character. Theo was incredibly thoughtful in that process, and it was great to work through those questions with him.

source: Vertical

A lot happens to Simon throughout the film, and without spoiling anything, each experience breaks him down a little more. What was it like writing that gradual unraveling? Did you go through a lot of different versions of it?

JC: That’s actually where Aaron and I differ in a really helpful way. As writers and filmmakers, we balance each other. I tend to be more heavy-handed. I like making a statement. I’ll hear the music, see the scene in my head, and know exactly what emotional response I want from the audience. I often write as if I’m watching the finished film.

The downside of that approach is that it can become controlling. You’re telling the audience exactly what to think and exactly what to feel. Aaron is very different. He’d rather create something where viewers arrive at their own conclusions. He wants them to ask themselves what they think and how they feel instead of being led there. Neither approach is right or wrong. They’re just different tools.

What makes our collaboration work is that we can balance those instincts and decide which approach serves a particular moment best. With Simon specifically, Aaron was adamant that we not validate Simon’s worldview through the story itself. If Simon’s life simply reflected all of his beliefs back to him and proved him right at every turn, the audience could easily dismiss him.

They’d watch and think, Well, that’s not me. That guy’s completely different. He’s off on his own thing. The story would become too easy to distance yourself from. But if you look at Simon’s life objectively, he actually has a pretty good life. He’s up for promotions at work. He has opportunities in front of him. He’s in a loving relationship. He’s talking about building a family and creating a future.

He’s surrounded by things most people aspire to. And yet that’s not what he sees. That disconnect became incredibly important to us. We wanted audiences to recognize that Simon’s problem isn’t necessarily his circumstances. It’s where he’s directing his attention. That’s why we tried to avoid being too heavy-handed. We didn’t want viewers to have an easy way to dismiss the story. We wanted them to see a little bit of themselves in it.

You mentioned that one of your goals is to start a dialogue, which I think is wonderful. Beyond that, is there anything else you hope audiences take away from the film?

JC: That’s a good question. The film comes out next week, and I have so many family members and friends who are excited to see it. They keep telling me, “I can’t wait to watch it.” And honestly, part of me feels a little guilty because it’s such a heavy film.

It’s not the kind of movie where you’re going to walk out laughing, feeling good, and celebrating. You’re going to walk out thinking. But I think the people who know me, and who have known me my whole life, will understand that. They’ll understand that I tend to have big feelings about the world and about life. If there’s one thing I hope people take away from the film, it’s the importance of asking questions.

Just ask questions. So much of modern life is built around competing for our attention. Everything is demanding it all the time, and I think many of us don’t even realize how freely we’re giving it away. I hope the film encourages people to take a step back and ask themselves: Where is my attention going? What am I focusing on? What’s actually important? I think that’s a valuable place to start.

You can see that reflected in Simon’s life. Like we talked about earlier, Simon actually has a good life. He’s living a wonderful life. But that’s not where he places his attention. His focus is somewhere else, and ultimately that’s what shapes the course of his life.

That’s beautifully said.  If you stop asking questions, you’re also more likely to become isolated.

JC: Yes.

I think that’s a wonderful note to end on. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today.

JC: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

We want to thank Jonathan Croom for speaking with us. Come With Me will be released September 4th.