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The quality of Canadian cinema in 2024, and particularly at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival, has been a resounding affirmation of what the industry is capable of producing. Johnny Ma‘s The Mother and the Bear is a vibrant and unique film that points toward the evolving versatility of Canadian filmmakers. Ma spoke with Film Inquiry about the film during its run at the festival this year.
Wilson Kwong for Film Inquiry: Given that this is your first film not taking place and filmed in China, how different was this experience from a filming standpoint?
Johnny Ma: I made two films in China, and I always tell people that it’s 10 times harder to make films in China. And after this experience, I’m still going through [with that]. But I think it’s more heartbreaking to make it in North America, in this system, for an artist. I won’t go into it much further, but I think there’s something about the system that seems to be very heartbreaking for an artist to do something. And I noticed that coming here this year, seeing my friends, it seems that it’s gotten even harder than when I first began. So I really empathize with the young filmmakers these days because I think it’s harder than it was when I was coming up.
And what made you decide to shoot in Canada?
Johnny Ma: So originally I started working with Fabula (production company) in Los Angeles because we were both outsiders of the system, and we found our common language in terms of the kind of stories that we want to tell. The story actually originated from a woman that I met in Cincinnati, and I found that very interesting to set up a film in Cincinnati because nobody knows how a visual of Cincinnati looks like. So I felt like I could create my own story through the main character’s eyes in terms of what this city was. However, when the pandemic hit, my collaborators told me that maybe we need help on the development side, and they suggested Canada because I’m Canadian. I was hesitant at the time because I didn’t know what the Canadian partner was going to propose. I thought Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, the usual. When they said Winnipeg, that was when I thought, wow, there’s actually something really special there. Because for me, Winnipeg has always been the place that I felt had the most interesting art. Not just in Canada, but around the world. It’s such an interesting place. And for me, it’s like, why does such great art compound in Winnipeg? So all of that congregated with me living in Winnipeg through the winter for five months to understand [why], and put that into the movie. The Winnipeg audience is my first audience for this film. I made this film for them.
And that was the first time you ever went to Winnipeg?
Johnhy Ma: Yeah, I wrote the first draft of film, never having stepped foot in Winnipeg. So when I actually did go there, my Canadian producer met me there and Guy Maddin actually was my tour guide. So for one day, he drove me around and showed me his Winnipeg. I thought to myself, here are these wonderful, wonderful Winnipeg filmmakers who would love the opportunity to make a film about their city because Winnipeg has never been shown for the general public on the cinematic screen before. It’s a huge responsibility and an honor really. I felt that it was almost my duty to earn their respect. And I think in order to make a film in Winnipeg, you have to understand the winter because that is where everything comes from. That’s the big, big difference compared to anywhere else.
source: Toronto International Film Festival
Since Winnipeg isn’t known to anyone else, as you mentioned, how did you sell the film to your cast when it came to its filming location? Especially for Kim Ho-jung (who plays the film’s lead character), who came all the way from Korea?
Johnny Ma: Well, but that’s the character, right? Sara Kim, the character, has never been and only knows that her daughter is in this place called Winnipeg. Nothing is known. I had a Peruvian Chilean cinematographer (Inti Briones), who is a cinematic shaman. He really guided me through this film. But on my first conversation with him, I told him, I don’t care if you’ve never been to Winnipeg or you [have] never shot a film in North America. I’ve seen your movies where you shoot in the mountains of Peru and all these incredible landscapes. Think of Winnipeg like that because when Sara first arrives in the city in the night, looks out the window with the blizzard outside, that’s what it feels like. It feels like an alien planet. And that’s what I want us to approach it from, because we’re all outsiders. The story is an outsider story, so let’s discover Winnipeg together.
Moving on to the performers, who are all great, I wanted to focus on the chemistry between Sara and Sam, which is so strong. Did you rely on a lot of rehearsals beforehand?
Johnny Ma: For me, rehearsals are very important. To spend time together, to eat together, that’s the thing of Asian culture. We need to eat together, and really feel comfortable around each other. Kim Ho-jung and Lee Won-jae, my understanding after meeting them is that they come from two very different schools of acting. Lee is a little older, so he comes from a more traditional, television style of acting. And Kim, I would call her an experimental artist. She’s somebody that works in theater. She really is one of the most brave artists that I have met anywhere in the world. So she is an anomaly in Korea, just like I’m an anomaly in Canada and in China. So I bring them together with something very interesting because neither of them really knew if this chemistry could work. And in the film, we had two love stories. One is a love story between the Sam and Sara characters. And then the other love story is the story between Sara and the roommate trying to get to know her daughter. So of course when we put the film [through] the edit, we saw the magic that was on the screen. Even though on set we were like, does this work? We weren’t sure because, imagine myself, who is Chinese, and I don’t understand Korean. So when they go off talking like this, I have to let them talk because I can’t stop and say, “Hey, what did you say there?” A lot of those long takes, I had to trust that I was watching one Korean person talk to another Korean person. So it’s magic. It’s very beautiful
How did you address that language and cultural barrier, being a Chinese (and Canadian) director working with Korean performers?
Johnny Ma: Just like what I told you about Winnipeg, it is a huge responsibility. It’s a huge honor, but it’s also, in the time that we live in, extremely sensitive. I’m the Chinese Canadian making not just a Korean film, but a Korean language, Korean culture film that’s deep in their culture; telling the story of a 65-year-old Korean mother, a female, [that’s] a coming of age story. It’s like if we’re hitting a golf ball and we have to literally hit this ball to drop right into the hole because we [can’t] miss it. We don’t know the world, so it was very important to tell the story in the right way. All you can do is work, you talk to people from the community. I see the Korean culture in this film, just like the Winnipeg culture. And so for me, it’s very important to work with all of them to gain their respect and to work with them like brothers and sisters. I want to create another way of telling stories, and not just only tell Chinese stories and things like that because that’s boring for me as an artist.
I feel like there are so many strong Canadian films this year, with The Mother and the Bear definitely being one of them. How do you think your film fits within the Canadian film industry as a whole?
Johnny Ma: Well, I think that it doesn’t. I have a friend, Matthew Rankins, who when I went to Winnipeg, I actually lived in [his] dad’s apartment. So me and him, I believe we share something together in that we’re unusual. We’re an anomaly in the traditional Canadian cinema scene. However, I’ve told people to stop putting boundaries around what a Canadian film and what a Canadian is. Let us, the artist, tell you what a Canadian film is. And I think a Canadian film is everything because for us, multiculturalism is a part of our roots. We are one of the only countries in the world that can say that. And if you really want to know how I feel and how I came to that discovery, search for my open letter to Robert Lepage on the CBC. I wrote an open letter to him because I want other Canadian artists to see that, because that’s what I am starting to discover about what a Canadian filmmaker is.
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